Dermaroller

[Jens86]

Hentet fra BTT:
Hey All
Pleased to say I finally heard back from one of the authors, unfortunately the responses were not as detailed as we'd like but any anyway, here are the questions and responses. Remember I tried to be as nonthreatening as possible as they are using this as a treatment and hence giving away their secrets:


Good Day
Your name was cited in a recent Journal about a pilot study on Microneedling and the positive effects on Androgenic Alopecia.
Are you the correct person to contact regarding this study?
Please could you kindly contact me and comment whether you'd be willing to assist with some queries I have?
Many thanks for your assistance in this regard


02 August 2013
Dear Mr. XXXXXXX
I am the right person, who is responsible for the study.
We routinely perform microneedling for patients with androgenetic alopecia including women, getting good results.


Dear Dr YYYYYY
Thank you very much for getting back to me and confirming you are indeed the correct person.
I have a few queries on the treatment which maybe you can shed some light on:
1. Do the results continue improving under the microneedling / Minoxidle regime or is there a limit to the regrowth patients can expect?
2. Have you treated any patients with this regime whilst they were on Finasteride? How do their results compare?
3. What level of pain and bleeding should patients expect and could there be potential damage to the hair follicles if the treatment is too vigorous?
4. Do you treat with Minoxidle immediately after the treatment or follow the studies method of rest for 24 hours? If so, why?
5 Do you use different length needles for different patients or is there a standard length?
Thank you very much for your time clarifying these queries. I look forward to hearing back from you.

Kind Regards
XXXXXXXXXX


07 August 2013
Dear XXXXXX
Ans
1. There was further mild improvement after completion of treatment
2. Now I treat all my patients with finasteride + minoxidil+microneedling + platelet rich plasma. Results are v.good.
3. very mild pain, one or 2 bleeding spots occasionally.
4. We ask our patients not to apply minoxidil on the day of procedure
5. Standard length is 1.5mm for all patients.

 

[Jens86]

Da har jeg bestilt dermaroller. Dette høres for godt ut til å være sant, men det koster såpass lite at det blir for dumt å ikke prøve

 

[Hairetic]

Nice find Jens.

Har definitivt tro på at det fungerer. Hvor mye er spørsmålet.
Håper at det gjelder på hårlinjen også

 

[Jens86]

Hvordan går det med rullingen @Hairetic og @DGB ?

 

[DGB]

Hvordan går det med rullingen @Hairetic og @DGB ?

jeg har ikke engang bestilt dermaroller, kan noen anbefale meg en bra dermaroller?

 

[Hairetic]

Skal ta 3 rull i dag
Fikk også hente lapp på apoteket jeg har bestilt fra Spania, lol ;P

Så i dag begynner bimatoprost, bethasone og retin-a

 

[Jens86]

Copy-paster en post fra BTT som forklarer teorien bak hvorfor dette skal fungere:

Dermarolling is not meant for absorption but for WOUNDING. It is a known FACT that when wounding occurs, WNT and FGF-9 is induced during the healing process. Keep in mind WNT is the same stuff Histogen is using for their method of injections, so this already holds weight. FGF-9 was shown to grow a significant amount of hair on mice but when removed, hair did not grow. A similar pattern occurs during the wounding process in human scalp, however FGF-9 is produced in lower numbers. It is however thought that the addition of Minoxidil AFTER wounding will elevate PGE2 levels which in itself also elevates FGF-9. FGF-9 along with WNT both *should* induce growth in hair. Both of which theories are documented and published by, you guessed it, Dr. George Cotsarelis.

Read here: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/may07/hair-follicle-regeneration.html

Look for this part in that article:

“We showed that wound healing triggered an embryonic state in the skin which made it receptive to receiving instructions from wnt proteins,” says senior author George Cotsarelis, MD, Associate Professor of Dermatology. “The wnts are a network of proteins implicated in hair-follicle development.”

As for FGF-9, here's what he has to say:

In one embodiment, the present invention provides a method for generating an HF in a scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region of a subject, comprising the steps of: (a) disrupting an epidermis of the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region; and (b) contacting the scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region with minoxidil, thereby generating an HF in a scalp, eyebrow, or scarred region of a subject.

Source: https://www.google.com/patents/US20120121693?dq=ininventor:%22George+Cotsarelis%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rsSvUdH8GoXXrQHhqoH4BA&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA

The recent study had these results:

To further give evidence of this theory, heres an article from 1986 mentioning a scalp burn victim with MPB regrowing terminal hair after the burn healed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351889/pdf/bmjcred00266-0059b.pdf

We also know that in thinning hair, scalp also thins. However dermarolling alone increases collagen production which thickens up skin. This was mentioned by Spencer on his show not long ago in regards to the dermarolling approach. In my opinion (though this is my only theory) a good environment for hair follicles will also play a role, so essentially a DHT free zone with good skin should provide results. I myself will be trying out EMU oil as its known to improve skin. The addition of dermarolling, minoxidil, and a DHT inhibitor like RU58841 or an oral one like Dutasteride should provide results.

So the dermaroller only costs between $10-$40 and will *at least* help with absorption. This, you are right about. However, there is *no reason* not to replicate this study and see what happens.

PrettyFly83 is already seeing results and has posted a link to the dermarolling thread, I would strongly suggest everyone read over it and at least give it though:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

 

[Hairetic]

brukt dermaroller i ca. 1 mnd nå å enda ingenting å vise til =\

 

[DGB]

brukt dermaroller i ca. 1 mnd nå å enda ingenting å vise til =\

resultatene viser seg nok etter 6 uker ifølge studien

du bruker ikke minox?

 

[Hairetic]

Nope ingen minox på meg så regner med å få mindre resultat, men vil fortsatt tro at jeg skal få noe mtp. hvor latterlig mye mer gruppen med dermarolling+minox fikk i forhold til bare minox gruppen

 

[DGB]

Nope ingen minox på meg så regner med å få mindre resultat, men vil fortsatt tro at jeg skal få noe mtp. hvor latterlig mye mer gruppen med dermarolling+minox fikk i forhold til bare minox gruppen

joda så lenge du øker pge2 nivåene så vil det gi hårvekst

 

[DGB]

prettyfly83 resultater fra baldtruthtalk etter 3 måneder med dermaroller og minoxidil.

 

[Jens86]

Imponerende. Men startet han minox samtidig som dermarolling? I så fall er historien hans null verdt mtp hva man skal mene om dermarolling.

 

[DGB]

Han startet minox en periode før bruk med dermarolleren, jeg har sett mange resultater men aldri så gode som dette. Jeg tror aldri minox alene vil gi slike resultater.

Jeg tror ikke selve dermarolling er kuren for hårtap, men wounding gir best vekst. Ikke bare studien som viser det, men også mange andre studier som de posta på baldtruthtalk.

 

[Hairetic]

Damn, håper jeg får lignende ;P
Dessverre ser jeg absolutt null vekst enda

 

[Jens86]

Det blir spennende å se. Jeg har mine tvil, ettersom dermarolling har blitt brukt lenge over hele kroppen, uten at økt hårvekst har blitt registrert som bivirkning. Men for all del, jeg er den første til å bestille dersom folk rapporterer om at det virker

 

[Hairetic]

Tror det kan forklares med at hårveksten andre steder på kroppen ikke blir rammet av DHT .

Har lest anekdoter av folk som mener de fikk tilbake hår etter de ble solbrent på hode, så får se ;P men ja er skeptisk selv

 

[Finasteride]

Tror det kan forklares med at hårveksten andre steder på kroppen ikke blir rammet av DHT.

Har lest anekdoter av folk som mener de fikk tilbake hår etter de ble solbrent på hode, så får se ;P men ja er skeptisk selv

Enig, i tillegg er vitamin D muligens involvert i hårtap så litt sol er nok ganske bra for hud og hår.

 

[Jens86]

Her er et bilde av PrettyFly83 på BTT. Problemet er at han startet på minox 1 mnd før dermarolling, så det er umulig å si noe om hvor resultatene kommer fra :dodgy:

Før behandling sammenliknet med resultater etter 4 mnd:

 

[Baker1986]

Hvor ofte dermaroller dere?